im sorry but up there you was all spewing rubbish about the greatest managers "no offence by the way" in my opinion it is clough what he did with the teams he had "despite leeds" .. and u can say but the teams he had were great BUT only because he made them great from nothing end of cheers all for coming :-D

"I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one."

Cloughie was fantastic in his glroy years, not better than Paisley, probably not better than Fergie, but a great none the less.

The problem with Cloughie was he ended up relegating Forest, and in the end he became an embarassing excuse of a man.

No he didnt mate cloughie in my opinion was and always will be the greatest manager in theprofession .. ok he made mistakes and maybe retired far too late but if money wasnt involved would fergie and unted of been as good ? i do not think so in my opinion .. paisley is an exception he is good still think cloughie was better.

I must be the only person who doesn't even think Ferguson is the best manager in the league at the minute. Great achievements, and a good manager don't get me wrong there. But I think David Moyes is probably the best manager in the league at the minute. <<< Coming from a Liverpool fan...

Lets not get carried away now...

lol

I'm not getting carried away, given the financial backing and team that Ferguson has had Moyes would achieve more.

Moyes has not purchased any first team players since Heitinga back in 2009, because he has not had the financial backing, if he had the money united chelsea liverpool or city have he would take everton to the top 4 no doubt.

My opinion, feel free to disagree.

The problem with Moyes is that IMO he lacks the ambition of Ferguson. Fergie would have left Everton by now, whereas Moyes seems happy to sit back and accept mediocrity.

As for Clough he pretty much ruined his own reputation by not letting go.

In the end became a bigoted, homophobic, offensive, drunkard, with nothing but contempt for everyone bar himself.

and thats what he love as he was ENGLISH afterall :D

In fact i take that back... he probably did hate himself in later years.

either way i suppose forums are a way of stating your opinions my opinion is he is the greatest of all time your opinion is celarly not the same fergie as good as he is .. is overated due to the amount of money he has been able to spend mourinho the same although porto great achievement ... paisley is the only one who comes close to cloughie and maybe alf ramsey he was fantastic also ... although far too old for my memory just what i have read and also the 66 cup win :D

I agree, Paisley is better than Fergie being saying so for ages, just none of the premiership fans here seem willing to believe football was around before the premier league!

Not sure about Clough though, he won Division 1 twice in his career. Paisley won it 6 times in 9 years.

He won the Champions League twice, Paisley won it 3 times.

In Paisleys 9 years as manager - he won in total 19 trophies.

In Cloughs 28 years as manager he won 12 trophies. In that I included something called The Watney Cup and his 2nd division title.

Now Bob had a good team, but 9 years in football is a long time (not as long as 28 years though ) and he did have to rebuild a new team, and his signings were quite brilliant, such as Kevin Keegan from Scunthorpe, and Kenny Dalglish from Celtic.

Clough had a good team with Leeds lets not forget, and was sacked within 7 weeks!

Clough though, the year he relegated Forest he was a wreck.

He banned Justin Fashanu from training with the rest of his side, because he was gay, called him a puff in fact. Didn't help that at the time he was completely alcahol dependent.

After that season he retired, to become a two bit pundit, and would take the most controversial line on anything and everything to keep himself talked about. Ironic really, because he hated pundits!

We have been over this....

Fergie is the best manager of all time
Clough is the second best manager of all time

Paisley Inherited his team. Fergie and Clough BUILT there teams into winning teams. Forest were in Division 2 when Clough took over, he got them Promoted and won the European Cup. Where were Liverfool when Paisley took over? Oh thats right, they were 2nd and Paisley inherited the team, pretty Easy job taking over.

Your forgetting that Clough had balls of steel and told the Leeds United players that they won through cheating. He also punched Roy Keane. He was a LEGEND

He inherited a team at leeds that were so in love with revie that if clough had told them to wipe there bums after they had been the toilet they would of ignored him ... im not disputing paisley was great he really was he had a great team there BUT as a liverpool fan i feel you are being biased im very unbiased as im a villa fan but i still think cloughie is the greatest then second paisley and then fergie would come 5th or so after busby and ramsey thats just my opinion football was a harder game back then than it is now so for my money fergie cant be the greatest of all as money does talk despite the great youth system they had place that brought through becks giggs scholes and the likes cloughie is the greatest and the greatest englishman never to have had the job .. if he had he job i seriously think 86 would of been ours in my opinion that is :D

How are we defining greatness here?

We can talk all day about taking over a second division team and all the rest of it, but it is in the end meaningless.

The fact is Clough established Forest. After winning the league title, he never did it again with them.

They won the European Cup, then as a result got the oppertunity to defend it and they did.

After that what did he achieve? Relegation.

Liverpool had a chain that started at Shankly and went on for 20 years. 20 years of dominating England. So do we just keep saying that every manager after Shankly was lucky to be left a great team?

To say Paisley won what he did because of the team he was left with shows painful ignorrance really.

Sure the foundation was there, but he was a very different manager to Shankly, and the team we had when he left, was completely different to the team he inherited, and guess what? It was still the best in the country, and continued to be so for a long time after he left.

Edited at 06:46 Fri 15/07/11 (BST)

im not saying he didnt do a great job i have said all along he did a fantastic job although he did inherit a team from shanks no doubt he had to rebuild slightly as players get older and such but for cloughie to of took the team he had to where he took them you dont think that shows a little something special ? this is all our opinions right you thinks paisleys is the greatest i think cloughie and m_wood thinks fergie if we look at it in hindsight they are in all of our top 5's i would possibly say so really we are all right in a sense just in a diferent way ? :D

You are right, we will never agree and we are going over really old ground.

I just have a particular dislike of Clough because of some of the things he said. A lot of people are the same, especially on Merseyside for his comments on Hillsborough.

My point is though that once he had got Forest established and winning European Cups and the 1 league title, he should then have gone on and won even more, like Paisley won more after Shankly established Liverpool.

In the end you re judged by what you win, and the fact is Clough just wasn't as succcesful as a lot of managers.