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League Discussion Thread II

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dgeneratio
dgeneratio
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Posts: 54,018
21:02 Mon 10 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
so i can enter teams on site and its vital for qualification into the league, you then play two friendlies where you must complete almost all the matches, established clans had to do it, to make it into the competition.
daviking
daviking
Posts: 239
18:07 Tue 11 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
I don't understand what that has to do with having to send a copy of the clan list, which will rarely change, every time. As far as I'm aware, other than destroyer_v2 maturing and moving on, BB never changed.
immortal
immortal
Posts: 541
19:10 Tue 11 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
I think all you are doing is trying to be awkward actually...

Team list is sent in as the captain chooses who plays. They know who can play in that set and who can not. You don't send in a list you then have the league runner using a previous list or randomly using one which could hurt your teams chance at maybe a title... that random choice could pit one of your alright players into a huge match where a 6 - 0 is probably 90% going to happen. Although most of the time on snooker you can guess who you will get though as that is the way it works here but that should never change as it does stop the issue of someone possibly cheating.

What has Dan got to do with this and his apparent maturing? BB did change, became much harder to arrange with when playing games with them not to mention the awkward and weird instances where very active players could not even get a game done, or used some silly silly excuse which made no sense.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Moderator
Posts: 54,018
19:23 Tue 11 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
She means at start of a season Jay but its a test to see if Clans can follow basic instruction, plus it isn't hard to post Clan Name and a List.

Regarding BB, It had changed, Dan left and Sarah took over, Sarah became inactive and without Haggis BB wouldn't have lasted the Season as even with his Army work still found time to speak to me about subs, granted some were late but understandable as work was more important.

Back in Baulk is another clan what fell apart really but finished 3rd so not all bad their either.

Anyways not much of that is relevant now except the Plate which may cost Baulk. Leagues going to fold by next week (I'll leave Individuals open). Then i'll trawl through threads and find results for every set for each clan, If a Captain wants to help do their own clan then i'll be grateful
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Moderator
Posts: 54,018
19:28 Tue 11 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
I don't understand what that has to do with having to send a copy of the clan list, which will rarely change, every time.


I had to give dispensations in almost each set after transfer window to Baulk or Breaks so a lot can change but it is needed to sign up to the league. Think of school activities and you write your name on a piece of paper to show you're interested, Same thing
daviking
daviking
Posts: 239
07:44 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
How am I being awkward? I am new to the clans, loved it, and just want to understand, that's what I mentioned before, don't get mad at people while assuming they know what you know.

You don't send in a list you then have the league runner using a previous list or randomly using one which could hurt your teams chance at maybe a title.


This is what I don't understand. The previous list is always fine, just update according to the changes thread.

It can't be random surely? The teams are decided at the start so a runner can't just randomly add or remove players
stephenh2014
stephenh2014
Posts: 455
11:12 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
If a team can't even be bothered to send in a players list at the start of the season, theres no way they're commited enough to get their games played lol. So seems like a good and easy first test to me
daviking
daviking
Posts: 239
14:19 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
Totally agree, but thats not what im asking about
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Moderator
Posts: 54,018
14:40 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
daviking said:
You don't send in a list you then have the league runner using a previous list or randomly using one which could hurt your teams chance at maybe a title.


This is what I don't understand. The previous list is always fine, just update according to the changes thread.

It can't be random surely? The teams are decided at the start so a runner can't just randomly add or remove players


Here is how it works a Captain sends me a list to play different games, depending on which clan you're facing, if they don't i use their last fixture sheet. Any changes from that sheet the first available team member will be selected from team list. If its pre friendlies or fixture one then i pick Captain in Arc, Vice in Reg then players in Row Order as punishment for not sending a list.

It has been like this for 6 years and even if league wasn't folding i wouldn't change it regardless of who complains because i run the league and its my own system. Same as Defaults Team (from Pool), Format (Players chose), Pre Friendlies, Frame Count (League), i would be willing to change most things but some are just rules you have to abide by
daviking
daviking
Posts: 239
16:39 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
Ah so its not a team list but a fixture specific list. That makes sense. All that was ever referred to was "the team list" which is just the list of people in the clan, hence why it seemed pointless. Cool, all clear now

How do you avoid cheating?

By that I mean, what if a captain always suggests a player who is best at a certain thing to always play that, which would obviously be unfair.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Moderator
Posts: 54,018
17:00 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
1st Question

Fixture Sheet = A New List for specific games
Team Sheet = Clan with Players on from start of season, Only changes if Captain or Vice posts players In and Out

2nd Question

That's up to the Captains, vs Larger Clans people are used in their strongest types (e.g. dvz in Original vs Anger or Heaven) and Heavens would be count_raven and Anger doesn't have an Orig representative so either dgeneratio or legend_pot fills it vs smaller clans then someone weaker is generally used, i know it is awful to say but it is usually the truth.

Carom is the best example. Let's say you have crazy_greg and legend_pot as a Carom representative, they would use the better/more experienced player which is Greg vs Heaven and Meat and Legend against Breakers and Baulk but Baulk did well to finish above Heaven (My only surprise in stats, others seem accurate).

This means that you find tons of common fixtures involving the top teams, e.g. w_hoolahan vs etarvt, crazy_greg vs w_hoolahan, etarvt vs crazy_greg but not much you can do about that and all legal.
immortal
immortal
Posts: 541
17:20 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
Not really consider cheating either or unfair either. That has always been the one down fall to snooker clans though as James would also agree with. Everyone uses their best player in that type of game mode and it has always been played like that... unless your other fixture is against a some what weaker team. Although some clans dont have a designated player for a specific type take Dead Meat for example we have players that can play anything really but when it comes to Original for us i struggled picking players as the only player we really had who could compete in that mode consistently was Dave (Dvz) so for me i had really no choice in playing him there despite Dave to my knowledge liking Regular more but he had no issue with being used where ever i seen fit too put him.

All the above also applies on pools version of snooker which would be the FBL... you find a lot of the time the same kind of fixtures popping up as the season goes on. FBL is like snooker in a way as you can easily manipulate a win in a fixture as you have some idea of who is going to be playing where for the other team depending on the strength of the team you are facing. That won't ever change i don't think as there is not a lot you can do to stop it without it upsetting certain players like if you tried to random those types of games.
immortal
immortal
Posts: 541
17:27 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
Example -

Dead Meat v Anger

I can pretty much guess from current team and going by activity only the now that their team would be...

Arcade - Thegame26
Regular - Dgeneratio
Original - Legend_pot
Carom - Crazy_Greg

Which in return James could pretty much guess my team would be...

Arcade - Booby_trap
Regular - Immortal
Original - Dvz
Carom - W_hoolahan

Far to easy after a while as you see a pattern form,sometimes you might only be 80% right depending on the opponents activity within the clan and other stuff as well
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Moderator
Posts: 54,018
18:14 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
Not really consider cheating either or unfair either. That has always been the one down fall to snooker clans though as James would also agree with. Everyone uses their best player in that type of game mode and it has always been played like that... unless your other fixture is against a some what weaker team. Although some clans dont have a designated player for a specific type take Dead Meat for example we have players that can play anything really but when it comes to Original for us i struggled picking players as the only player we really had who could compete in that mode consistently was Dave (Dvz) so for me i had really no choice in playing him there despite Dave to my knowledge liking Regular more but he had no issue with being used where ever i seen fit too put him.


Yes its always been a problem, especially as its a single type event and not Mixed (2 Arc, Reg, Orig), although we had Mixed in previous seasons.

FBL originated from Snooker so naturally they have the same issues, the frames was the same but got raised and into points count.

The way we countered this was a Completion Bonus of 7 points, Had to be higher than best match score of 6-0 but with clans depleting i had to lower to 4v4 compared to past which was 6 matches (Arc, Reg, Orig, Carom, Power, Mixed) so had to remove bonus as 4v4 seemed too easy but from this season without the exceptions, many clans wouldn't get the bonus.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Moderator
Posts: 54,018
18:17 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
Example -

Dead Meat v Anger

I can pretty much guess from current team and going by activity only the now that their team would be...

Arcade - Thegame26
Regular - Dgeneratio
Original - Legend_pot
Carom - Crazy_Greg

Which in return James could pretty much guess my team would be...

Arcade - Booby_trap
Regular - Immortal
Original - Dvz
Carom - W_hoolahan

Far to easy after a while as you see a pattern form,sometimes you might only be 80% right depending on the opponents activity within the clan and other stuff as well


Yep pretty easy to guess, i knew Baulk would use Etarvt so the second time we played as Greg got beat last time, i put myself in i believe so Greg didn't have to lose twice and i would take the hit.

Sort of the same with Dvz in Original as well.
daviking
daviking
Posts: 239
18:58 Wed 12 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
Thats really interesting guys, thanks for that

You should consider posting some of this as a kind of "history of the Clans" thing somewhere, it would be great for newbies and help explain some of the stuff that, while I am sure is obvious to you, can leave newbies puzzled and may lead to them losing interest.

As I approached it very much as a fun exercise and have the long held belief that everyone should play everyone, I hadn't thought of tactics that could be involved.

We fell down bigtime having me play carom instead of arcade
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
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Posts: 54,018
20:35 Wed 19 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
League is now officially folded minus Individuals

Seems it was brought back too early but nice to play again, Until the next time.

Sayonara
watchinawe
watchinawe
Posts: 52
14:06 Wed 26 Oct 16 (BST)  [Link]  
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buckjam
buckjam
Posts: 638
17:37 Sat 3 Dec 16 (GMT)  [Link]  
Made you look
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
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Posts: 54,018
14:36 Wed 7 Dec 16 (GMT)  [Link]  
Made you look


Sure did
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League Discussion Thread II

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